The comment was made by Fr Dennis Nacorda, one of the New Zealand representatives at the Synod on Synodality held in Rome in October 2023.

Unable to attend the first Zoom feedback meeting about the Synod, Nacorda last Thursday joined Mr Manuel Beazley the Vicar for Maori, and Archbishop of Wellington Paul Martin for the second Zoom meeting.

Nacorda's view

In 2024, Nacorda became the new parish priest of the geographically vast Wairarapa parish.

Wairarapa Mass-going parishioner numbers have been dwindling over recent years since five geographically disparate and identifiable communities were merged into two.

Nacorda described his impressions of the Synod and its process as an "eye-opener". It shows "how the Church should work" he said.

It also gave him insights and ‘things' to take to his parish. He is very supportive of the spiritual discernment process used by the Synod.

Nacorda said one of his Synod experiences that can be used in a local setting is how everyone's comments were considered.

"Those [comments] that are on the left side of the spectrum and the right side of the spectrum, they are all put onto the table and are heard and listened to with respect and reverence … and that's really good."

He is also very supportive of the spiritual discernment process used by the Synod.

It's about mission

Asked about how Synodality can bridge the gap between the parish and the global Church, Nacorda says that when looking at mission, it starts on the ground and mission starts in parishes.

As we encourage, inspire and enable parishes to care for the mission, it could reflect the whole global picture.

He said that if Synodality is encouraged at the parish level, it will influence the hierarchy.

Fielding a question from a young person who joined the meeting, Nacorda said that teens should have a place in the Church, that they are not there preparing for the future, that they are already part of the Church and have a role to play now.

It is not a matter of finding a way to bring young people in but of going to where they are, engaging with them where they are in the world, he said.

Nacorda described Synodality as a "new era dawning upon us".

Calling it exciting, "I can't wait for it to happen" he said.

What is Synodality?

Describing the overall experience as "really powerful" and "really, really helpful", Archbishop Paul Martin said conversations in the Spirit can surprise.

Martin said for him, the diversity of the Church - the Church with so many nations and cultures - challenged his dominant, very Western thinking.

"Other parts of the world don't think this way at all" he said.

He described the challenges of having these conversations as "enlightening" and in terms of listening "demanding".

"But we did it" he said, highlighting the importance of conversations in the Spirit.

He warned that we are speaking of being a Synodal Church as though it is some form of democratic or majority process.

He clarified that synodality was not a majority rule nor a form of democratic process.

"If we ask twenty people 'what does it mean to be synodal?' I suspect we'll get twenty different answers" observed Martin.

He said that Synodality will highlight new gifts within people and the need for us to all learn new skills.

No NZ women representatives!

The absence of women from New Zealand's representatives was asked about and addressed on Tuesday. It featured again during Thursday's meeting.

Meeting facilitator Lucienne Hensel commented that New Zealand was not part of the Oceania group and there were a number of women representatives from Oceania.

Clarifying the issue of "representation", Manuel Beazley said that while Martin represented the New Zealand bishops, neither he nor Nacorda represented Aotearoa.

Beazley called it a "subtle distinction" saying "We just happen to be members who've chosen to be at the assembly who come from Aotearoa".

LGBTQ

When asked if they thought the Synod addressed the concerns of those who felt excluded, e.g. LGBTQ communities, Paul Martin said the group he was in tried to talk about LGBTQ communities.

He pointed out that in his group was Fr James Martin SJ.

James Martin is the editor at large of Outreach. He has also served the marginalised ever since joining the Society of Jesus.

He has worked with street gangs, the sick and dying, refugees in East Africa, prison inmates, people experiencing homelessness - and is now reaching out to the LGBTQ community.

He was also personally invited to the Synod by Pope Francis.

Paul Martin said that while his Synod group was sympathetic to the LGBTQ community, there were other parts of the world that definitely were not.

He said discussion of LGBTQ outreach was one of the Synod "flashpoints" where very different opinions from around the World became visible.

He noted a number of people were disappointed the final document was watered down from the earlier draft.

Watering it down was a way of keeping the conversation going, as there was a feeling that if it kept the original, it would be voted out, he said.

Beazley commented that the Synod talked a lot about various groups, for example LGBTQ, youth, women and indigenous.

"There was a lot of talking about and rather not enough talking with" he observed.

He was very happy that his intervention on indigenous people appeared almost word-for-word in the final document.

On the lighter side

While delegates were encouraged to use first names, Paul Martin clarified that bishops were required to wear formal attire only at the first and last sessions; otherwise there was no dress code.

But, as Beazley observed, Italians love wearing uniforms and everyone in Rome has a uniform.

Nacorda interpreted that the lack of a dress code meant he could wear his normal clothes and travelled to Rome without sufficient clerical shirts.

Their lack provided a learning experience. Not having visited Rome before, Nacorda says he learned firsthand "When in Rome, do what the Romans do."

He told those at the Zoom meeting that he was looking forward to his return visit to Rome for the second session of the Synod.

"Next time, I'll be ready, I'll be prepared" he said.

Sources

• Supplied
• CathNews NZ

These involve listening combined with an understanding that the Church is not some form of majority democracy.

Martin offered the comments during the first of two online Zoom meetings on Tuesday evening.

The online meetings are part of the feedback from New Zealand's representatives.

Martin is also highlighting the role of prayer in the Synod's proceedings.

During the Zoom meeting he said that prayer made a tangible difference during the sessions. Three three to four minutes of prayer after every four or five interventions or speeches was significant at all levels, he said.

"Stopping and praying or trying to recollect yourself is a powerful way of drawing the Spirit into the conversation.

"Prayer also took a lot of the politics out of it," he added.

Synodality a work in progress

Admitting that the Church seems to be in a synodal phase where Synodality seems to mean whatever we want it to mean, Martin says he is looking forward to the second phase in October this year.

He disclosed that it is not yet clear how the second session will operate, indicating a form of constructionist learning at work.

"We are learning; it's evolving and ongoing. We'll get some right and some wrong.

"That's what trusting the Spirit is at work means" he said.

Martin clarified for the Zoom meeting that being half way through a two-stage process it is impossible to implement big changes..

A realist, he observed that the Synod happened in October - they arrived back in November; during December and January, the country is focused on celebrating Christmas and summer holidays.

Kiwi informality

One of the other ‘takeaways' that struck Martin is that the New Zealand Church is much more casual and informal.

"While there are exceptions hierarchically-wise, we are not in the same place as some of our sisters and brothers in other countries" he commented.

He admitted that while there is a lot more work to be done to empower all the baptised, each with their own place, he also thought the New Zealand Church had made considerable efforts over a long time in this area.

Speaking as Archbishop of Wellington he said "I want to see these developments grow.

"Ultimately, it's going to depend on each one of us to listen to each other more and see how we can join it together."

Divergent discussion

Martin observed the Synod conversations were not always ‘plain sailing'.

One area where there was significant divergence was the Church's relationship with LGBTQ+ people.

He said the significant issues around the LGBTQ+ community caused quite a bit of conversation, which was publicly reflected in the clear difference between the draft and the final Synodal document.

Acknowledging the divergence of LGBTQ+ views between the sisters and brothers of different parts of the world, he added that the discussion was processed respectfully.

He says he is looking forward to meeting up again with the same people to continue the range of conversations.

Relational focus

Mr Manuel Beazley, the Vicar for Maori in the Diocese of Auckland, also attended the Synod.

For Beazley, the experience seemed more personal and relational than structural for the Church in New Zealand.

While he said he could not talk for the whole diocese of Auckland, he is involved in a couple of areas to progress the work of the Synod.

Commenting that perhaps Maori are more synodal in terms of his own work and area of responsibility, Beazley says he found the process helpful.

For him, one of the key outcomes of the Synod was contacting other like-minded ministers and joining them as if they were another family. He said they continue to keep in touch using modern media.

A highlight for him was that if Pope Francis were in the gathering and not otherwise engaged, people were permitted to approach him. He was pleased to have spoken with Francis several times.

New Zealand's other representative, Fr Dennis Nacorda, apologised for being unable to attend the meeting. Nacorda is the Parish Priest in the Wairarapa.

The second of two Synod feedback Zoom meetings was held last evening.

While Synodality will not happen overnight, indeed there is a part two of the Synod in October 2024, CathNews spoke with some ‘synod watching' Catholics about tasking the Church with this responsibility.

"It's a huge responsibility for the New Zealand delegates; they're going to need a good process," said Julian, one of those questioned.

"Francis' request goes far beyond merely changing the words of the Mass. It's about transforming an ingrained culture."

While the popular view of Synodality is interpreted as 'power to the people' or akin to a political party changing its policy on a matter, the details of what Synodality means remain unclear.

The methods for implementing these changes are arguably more critical and unclear.

Archbishop Gintaras Grušas of Vilnius, Lithuania says that changing our personal habits and routines is one thing, but trying to change an entire diocese is Herculean.

"With yourself, you can do it. When you try to bring a whole diocese or a whole nation or a whole continent with you, it takes a lot more work," said the archbishop, who is also president of the Council of European Bishops' Conferences.

Synodality vs closed doors

Julian says that while he understands the need for closed doors at the Synod, closed doors actually create a synodal problem.

"Closed doors make it difficult for those on the outside to understand what actually happened on the Synod floor, how it operates and what we need to emulate and how we go about it" he said.

"The paradox is striking. Synodality, a process designed to encourage involvement, often excludes people.

"I admire Pope Francis, but sometimes his Jesuit background dominates a little too much.

"For synodality to work, someone needs to translate 'Jesuitical' into plain English."

Mr Manuel Bazley - Auckland diocese Vicar for Maori, Fr Dennis Nacorda - Parish Priest of Levin, Archdiocese of Wellington, Archbishop Paul Martin - Archbishop of Wellington

Pressure on New Zealand delegates

The responsibility for implementing these changes weighs heavily on the shoulders of New Zealand's synod delegates.

These synod delegates are now tasked with modelling a synodal response in a New Zealand context.

Through no fault of their own, New Zealand's synod delegates are two clerics from the Archdiocese and one Maori layman.

They were selected offshore from a group of New Zealand men and women.

Some argue their responsibility to model a synodal response doesn't start with a synodal look since all three delegates are male.

Archbishop Paul Martin and Fr James Martin SJ in their Synod group.

Listening a key change

"I support the idea of change", said Abbey, another of those spoken to by CathNews.

"I'm right behind our making a change, but perhaps if he, the person who selected New Zealand's delegates, listened to New Zealand culture, I think there might have been room for a woman in the mix."

She pointed out that listening is a key challenge.

"It's our Church and our faith but the priests make it feel like theirs.

"Our bishop has been unresponsive to discussions about reconfiguring our parish and, as a result, our people are voting with their wallets."

"I'm hanging in, but it's very easy to feel disenfranchised" she said.

Laity infallible

Abbey said that to her, Pope Francis' comment to the Synod hit home.

"One of the characteristics of this faithful people is its infallibility — yes, it is infallible in 'credendo' - in belief, as the Second Vatican Council taught.

"I explain it this way: When you want to know 'what' Holy Mother Church believes, go to the magisterium because it is in charge of teaching it to you, but when you want to know 'how' the Church believes, go to the faithful people."

However Mary, another questioned by CathNews, has some concerns.

"It sounds good, but it's blimmin' scary; handing everything over to the community is a cool idea in theory" she told CathNews.

"We've had 'devolution' of social responsibility in NZ since the late 80s, and the results are sad because nobody really knows what to do or feels like giving up their time to do it."

A Parish perspective

Fr Joe Grayland, a Parish Priest in the Diocese of Palmerston North says some parishes have tried synodal processes and encountered limitations.

Grayland, currently lecturing at the University of Tübingen, says people and some clergy resist change.

He told CathNews that Synodality has an added complexity when multiple nationalities have different expressions of faith.

"The New Zealand Catholic Church is not just one culture, one expression of faith" he said.

Highlighting the role of the parish priest, Grayland says that parish leadership and the role of the parish priest probably needs clarification.

He suggests there may be cause for priests to be retrained in a synodal leadership style.

"Change is difficult when it is not effectively led.

"There is an implicit challenge in synodality that the Church has ordained men into a hierarchical model with different ideas about leadership."

Manuel Bazley and Pope Francis greet each other.

Reality bites

When asked about her involvement in parish synodality, Trish, a very involved parishioner, replied, "Good grief."

"I'm fairly involved in the life of the parish, but they met for a month and nothing seems to have happened!

"Is the Church creating a professional synodal class of Catholics?

"I go to church, I pray, I'm involved in my community, I give my adult family a break and look after my grandchildren. It's all part of the mission of the Church.

"I'm a full-time Catholic as it is."

Synodality is possible

Cardinal Leonardo Ulrich Steiner who runs a synodal diocese in Manaus, Brazil believes in the power of community-led change.

"Synodality is beneficial because it allows the communities to guide us in being a Church rather than a bishop dictating terms" he told CNS.

Archbishop Faustino Armendáriz of Durango, Mexico has seen synodality work and acknowledges there are difficulties. But he remains optimistic.

"Achieving synodality is not easy, especially when people come from diverse backgrounds and hold different ideas.

"However, I've seen firsthand that consensus can be reached. It's challenging, but it is possible."

Source

• UCA News
• Catholic Culture
• America
• Catholic News Agency
• UCA News
• CathNews NZ
• Eurasia Review