Steve Bielski says he would not accept Muslims or any non-Christians praying at the council because they believed in different gods.

Councillors were discussing a proposal to invite members of different faiths to open meetings with a prayer, a job that's traditionally been done by local Christian leaders.

Bielski told RNZ he only said those things because the press was not present and it was in the confidence of the meeting.

But he stood by his comments.

"Obviously if I said it there, and if it's not twisted and everything like that I would stand by it because that's exactly what it is.

I tell you what, there is a lot of things said when the press are not there because we have the confidence to talk about some things," he said.

Fellow councillor Shane Casey witnessed the outburst at last month's meeting.

"A councillor was not happy that we were considering bringing in other faiths.

The councillor's mannerism was agitated and upset and was quite adamant the council should only be opened by, you know, a Christian group.

Casey said he does not agree with Mr Bielski. He said however, that everyone was entitled to their opinions and how they feel.

In 1989 the Manawatu District Council adopted a prayer addressed to "Almighty God" but without reference to any religious denomination.

The Council changed its policy and from 17 December 2009. Since then the Council meetings have been opened with prayer by members of the Feilding Christian Leaders Association on a rotational basis. They use their own prayers.

Last year, Local Government NZ president Dave Cull said councils were free to open meetings how they choose.

Source

• rnz.co.nz
• stuff.co.nz
• Image:

On May 5, the court ruled 5-4 that Christian prayers before town council meetings in Greece, New York, did not violate the US constitution.

The constitution prohibits the government establishment of a religion.

The five majority judges who gave the verdict are all Catholic.

One of the four minority judges in this case is Catholic.

The Supreme Court decided 30 years ago that state legislatures may begin sessions with an invocation.

But the new case asked whether there might need to be different rules for local council meetings, where citizens often come to ask for favourable official action.

Continue reading

Prime Minister, John Key says teachers in schools should be able to opt-out of delivering a karakia in schools if they wanted to.

Maori Affairs Minster, Pita Sharples. says because there are a lot of Maori and Pasifika whanau whose children attend Kelston Intermediate. The school's culture should reflect the community, and the whanau who send their children to the school.

"It is absolutely fitting that karakia be used in the school, as it is a vital part of our lifestyle and it is also consistent with the New Zealand Curriculum."

Dr Sharples said if individual teachers had an issue with leading students through karakia, then it should be worked through between the school and families.

A ministry of education spokesperson says while state primary schools were required to be secular this didn't preclude teaching about religion. He added, however that a 2009 document produced by the Human Rights Commission advised teachers and principals to avoid leading pupils in prayer.

They were responding to concern expressed by some of the teachers at the school about karakia (prayers) being recited in the classroom.

The school recites a karakia at the start of its weekly assembly and in classrooms before lessons begin.

Staff lead the prayer, which asks for the day to be blessed, help with work and to have a good week.

The NZEI, the primary teachers' union, has been asked to address concerns that have been expressed.

Source

• New Zealand Herald
• New Zealand Herald
• Image: Rotorua Post

But when three agnostic and atheist members staged a protest against the historic practice by remaining seated, the chairman decided something must be done to retain council unity.

So he hit upon an apparently ingenious solution: from now on, the prayer would still be said - but with all references to God removed.

So rather than asking "may He give us wisdom to carry out our duties ...", the chairman now states "may we find the wisdom ..." - and the "prayer" still ends with the chairman leading other members in saying "amen". Continue reading

"Some people seem to have a view that prayer and other aspects of religion need to be excluded from councils and other public forums for them to be truly public. But this is just not correct," says the New Zealand Christian Network's Glyn Carpenter.

"For something to be 'public' you don't aim for the lowest common denominator. That's the path to mediocrity. What you should do is allow space for all voices. This includes Christians, who represent a very significant number of people in our society.

The New Zealand Association of Rationalists and Humanists (NZARH) welcomed decision The believe that it represents "a victory for all the residents of Wanganui and for the wider New Zealand community representing, as it does, the first step towards a true separation between church and state."

The decision exemplifies just how long the arm of the law can be because it comes as a result of a High Court of Justice decision in Britain last month, in which a judge ruled the recitation of a prayer during Local Government Body meeting was not lawful under its Local Government Act.

That judgement has lead to the compromise reached by in the Wanganui District Council about whether or not the Council's meetings should open with a Christian prayer. It is the threat of a costly legal challenge that persuaded Wanganui District Council to overturn 170 years' tradition of opening meetings with a Christian prayer and to over-turned an earlier resolution to keep the prayer as a formal item of business on the council agenda.

The compromise resolution permits a separate, informal prayer session to take place before each meeting. However some councillors remain dissatisfied and want religion banished altogether.

Source

• Stuff.co.nz
• New Zealand Christian Network
• One furious Llama
• Image: Wanganui Chronicle

Councillor Clive Solomon has laid a Code of Conduct complaint against Councillor Rob Vinsen, alleging a number of breaches of the "understanding and expectations" requirements of the code.

The complaint relates to comments made by Mr Vinsen in emails regarding the council's prayer.

In his column Brian Rudman points out that God is getting in again via the back door as it were as a result of the growing practice of involving the Tangata Whenua in civil rituals.

With the epidemic of blessings that has erupted as part of the rugby circus, "jet-lagged visitors could be forgiven for thinking the pilot had taken a wrong turning and landed in the Vatican Republic by mistake." he says

Read Rudman's Column
Image: The Fairfacts Media Show.

Brian Rudman is a journalist and regular editorial contributor to The New Zealand Herald, New Zealand's largest daily newspaper.