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On May 20, Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone said in a public statement that Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, a life-long Catholic, will be barred from Communion in her home diocese of San Francisco.
Gloria Purvis, the host of America Media’s “The Gloria Purvis Podcast,” spoke to the archbishop about his decision.
Gloria Purvis: With all that’s going on right now—with Dobbs v. Jackson and the leaked opinion [suggesting] that Roe could be overturned—why make this decision now?
+Salvatore Cordileone: The leaked decision and the Dobbs case really have nothing to do with the timing of it. [Speaker Nancy Pelosi] did meet with me and speak with me over the years a couple of times.
Her advocacy for codifying the Roe decision into federal law—it’s becoming more and more extreme and more and more aggressive. And I’ve been trying to speak with her about this.
But more recently, her advocacy for codifying the Roe decision into federal law—it’s becoming more and more extreme and more and more aggressive.
And I’ve been trying to speak with her about this. I’ve been debating this within my own conscience for many years, actually. So this is not something that has just come up recently.
I’ve been discerning this. I’ve consulted with people whom I respect for their intelligence, their integrity and their pastoral sensitivity, who would have different perspectives on the situation to get their thinking on it.
I’ve done a lot of prayer and fasting. So I’ve been struggling with this for a long time.
Gloria Purvis: Can you talk a little bit more about the process for informing your conscience in making this decision?
+Salvatore Cordileone: First of all, one has to be clear about what is right and what is wrong.
The point of our conscience is not to decide what is right and wrong.
Forming our conscience is a process of helping us to figure out, in principle, what is right and what is wrong.
The role of conscience is to help us make the right decision in a specific situation based on what is right and wrong.
Forming our conscience, it’s these three principles: the need to address the injustice; to repair scandal; and to move the person down the path of conversion because of the spiritual harm it causes themselves.
I’m guided by the principles articulated by Pope Francis and taking the approach of the advice that then Cardinal Ratzinger gave us.
So in this sense, I was also following the advice that Pope Benedict, when he was then-Cardinal Ratzinger in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, sent in a letter to bishops here in the United States back in 2004.
He gave us advice on how to approach this, specifically with politicians, Catholic politicians, and specifically on the two issues of abortion and euthanasia.
And he said we need to meet, to dialogue, to try to move them down the path of conversion.
And if after several attempts it comes to the point where it’s clear [that] this is not going to happen, then the bishop or the pastor, [Ratzinger] says, is to declare that the person is not to be admitted to holy Communion.
So I’m guided by the principles articulated by Pope Francis and taking the approach of the advice that then-Cardinal Ratzinger gave us.
Gloria Purvis: You’ve reached out to her office privately, and you’re pretty confident she has received the messages you’ve sent her privately. Is there a pastoral reason to make this public?
+Salvatore Cordileone: If she’s not to be admitted to holy Communion, our priests and extraordinary ministers of holy Communion, all those who are Communion ministers need to know that.
Gloria Purvis: Is this in some way also to repair for the scandal—the public witness that she’s given on this? How does that work in this case?
+Salvatore Cordileone: Scandal is an action that would lead others into error or into sin. So the scandal here is that someone who is strongly advocating for something as evil as abortion and taking Communion creates confusion among people. And they can begin to think that it is acceptable for a Catholic to believe this.
Scandal is an action that would lead others into error or into sin.
And sometimes people ask me about that. One news reporter in a secular media, not in Catholic media, asked me if it is acceptable for a Catholic to be in favour of the so-called right to abortion.
So it wasn’t clear in his mind it, but it should be clear in everyone’s mind. So that’s how it leads people into a mistaken idea that this is acceptable and then can actually lead them into doing the evil or condoning it.
Gloria Purvis: And we’re talking about abortion; we are not talking about when the child has already died in the womb, and the mother has to undergo a D and C to remove the remains of her unborn child who’s already died.
You’re talking about the direct, intentional killing of the child in the womb. That’s what you’re talking about when you’re talking about abortion
+Salvatore Cordileone: Yes. And that’s what sets this issue [apart].
There are many really very critical issues we’re facing today, but the difference with abortion is it is involves the direct taking of an innocent human life. And as much injustice as there is and challenges we’re facing, I don’t see any legislators advocating the direct taking of innocent human life on any other issue.
So that’s what really sets the gravity of this apart.
I don’t see any legislators advocating the direct taking of innocent human life on any other issue.
Gloria Purvis: [Apart] from any other issue, where people may wonder, “Why not, you know, do something that’s on the death penalty or on immigration or on other economic justice issues?” You see this as a singular issue?
+Salvatore Cordileone: Yeah. Or even racism.
I mean, we’re horrified, when we look back 60, 70 years ago, that there was a time when lynchings were acceptable in some parts of the country, among some people.
That is just horrifying to us.
But it’s the same thing, right? It’s the killing of innocent human life. No one would tolerate that nowadays.
So those of us who understand [that] are trying to open the eyes of our people that this is the direct taking of an innocent human life and what we envision is a society in which that is unacceptable and no one would ever dream of doing it.
Gloria Purvis: Nancy Pelosi has said that she’s a devout Catholic and her faith is important to her. How do you see that statement—where she says she’s devout Catholic and she’s an open supporter of abortion rights. How does that play in your assessment of her faith? Is she still Catholic?
+Salvatore Cordileone: I cannot judge her conscience.
I cannot judge her faith from my interactions with her.
I think she’s sincere when she says that; I think her faith really is important to her. It really is important to her to be Catholic. And she feels devotion in her heart.
This makes me perplexed at why she would be so forceful on this issue as a politician.
It’s very tricky as a politician; there are so many issues to balance out and trying to come to some kind of consensus and compromise and all that.
But to be so aggressively promoting it—that’s not what a devout Catholic does.
So I believe in her heart, she feels that way, but there is a disconnect on this issue.
I think her faith really is important to her. It really is important to her to be Catholic. And she feels devotion in her heart. Continue reading
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